How are you coping with the current trauma? Whilst no two stories are the same, people the world over are experiencing various levels of loss. And with that loss comes grief.

Whether you are experiencing the loss of a loved one, freedom of movement, your income, or the life you knew before Covid-19, give yourself permission to grieve.

My guest today, Harriet Cabelly, is a grief counsellor and positive psychology coach who talks about Post-Traumatic Growth. Because, although you may have no control over the bigger picture, you can choose (in the tiny daily decisions that you make) how you respond to your difficulties.

There is hope. And there are other opportunities. How will YOU bounce back from this adversity?

Show notes

• [01.01] Dealing with the unexpected disruption and shock transition of your 2020 plans and routines

• [02.56] Strategies to helping you find a semblance of control in your daily life

• [06.59] Coping with the current trauma created by the sudden loss of income

  • Give yourself the permission to grieve

  • The Growth Mindset

    • The word ‘YET’

    • The lessons of failure

• [13.45] Post-Traumatic Growth (PTG)

  • The power of the ‘AND’

  • The choice of how you respond to your difficulties (see Victor Frankl)

• [21.53] Gratitude as a means for coping with the current trauma

• [23.47] As we move into the next phase of this transition, prioritising ‘being’ over ‘doing’

• [26.06] Being the creator of how you want to carve out your days (a nod to self-care), and taking control of what you can

• [27.30] What is the silver lining for you at this time? What are the aspects of this current situation that you will you choose to take with you into your new reality?
  

Learn more about Harriet

Harriet is currently offering free 20min sessions to provide support and resiliency building. Head over to her website to get in touch with her. Her book 'Living Well Despite Adversity' is also available on Amazon.

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If you're looking for a supportive community during this difficult time, reach out and join my Brave to Be Free Facebook group.

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Get my book - Deep Grooves: Overcoming Patterns that Keep you Stuck

• You can get the first two chapters of my book FREE here

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Relevant posts and episodes

• Your income has suddenly dried up... now what?

• Coping with the new normal of Coronavirus lockdown with Mary Baird-Wilcock
  

Quotes from this episode

“We really don’t have the type of control that we think we have, and sometimes we just have to surrender.” –Harriet Cabelly

“We don’t have to be beholden to everything that’s tugging at us.” – Harriet Cabelly

“It is crucial that we pause and work out what it is that we’re going to take away from all of this.” –Lisa Linfield

“We HAVE to start thinking out of the box. We HAVE to start feeling like we have some other means of doing things and being a little more creative.” – Harriet Cabelly

“Routines are very very important to keep us somewhat grounded.” –Harriet Cabelly

“We can still find avenues of richness and enrichment post trauma, post loss.” – Harriet Cabelly

“There’s loss here, tremendous societal and communal loss around many things.” –Harriet Cabelly

“We can hold pain and joy together. And we have to, otherwise we would just succumb at the first shot of any grief or loss in our lives.” – Harriet Cabelly

“We’re living history now. Each and every day we’re defining our lives of how we are doing during this unprecedented, critical time.” – Harriet Cabelly

Transcript

Lisa Linfield:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to today's episode of Working Women's Wealth. I'm joined by Harriet Cabelly who is a grief counselor and a positive psychology coach. She is also the author of Living Well Despite Adversity, and runs a business or program called Rebuild Life Now. She's here to talk to us today about how to bounce back from adversity and navigating life's transitions. Hello, Harriet, and welcome to the show.
Harriet Cabelly:
Hi, Lisa. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here, in these difficult times.
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. It is, seriously, a crazy time for the world and I don't know about you, but I really feel like 2020 was one of those years that was going at an absolutely frantic pace, and then all of a sudden it smashed into a wall. And everything stopped and we got locked into our houses and our daily routines, as we knew them, suddenly disappeared. How do we deal with this kind of shock transition?
Harriet Cabelly:
Well, that's a huge, huge question. And for those of us who are believers in a higher power, a God, something spiritual that transcends us meek human beings, we can hold on to the belief that there's someone else up there pulling the strings that really has the full control of our lives. So as much as we like to think we have control, I think there's a huge message here. Again, all of us can put out our own subjective interpretations and messages, but I feel a big one is that we're really not so all powerful and we really don't have the type of control that we think we have.
Harriet Cabelly:
And sometimes we just have to surrender and say, "Wow, there's something else bigger than us that's moving pieces in the world." And what we do have control over, maybe, is smaller things and how we set up our lives. And even that, we know, the rug can be pulled out from under us if, God forbid, we get a diagnosis or whatever. But I think that the idea is that there's something else here that's navigating and moving the world, and the key will be, what messages will we take from this going forward? And how might we live differently going forward when this is one day, hopefully soon, behind us.
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. And it is crucial that we pause and work out what it is that we're going to take away from all of this. For those of us who do like to be in control of our lives, what strategies would you suggest that would help us to stay connected to this moment? To surrender, as you'd say, but to find a small sense of control in our daily life?
Harriet Cabelly
Right. And that's really the biggest key to coping. So while on an existential, bigger level, we may say, "Well, there's other powers that be," in our daily lives we do need to maintain a semblance, and I stress that word, a semblance of control because that's what really grounds us. And that's our psychological anchor, is to really hold on to the things that we can control. So, for example, day-to-day now, while we're all around the world, I'm in New York, you're in South Africa, while we're all quarantined is creating a daily routine for ourselves. Creating rituals and routines that brings us stability, predictability in our day-to-day life. So, from as small as, you wake up in the morning and what's your routine? I know I jump on the treadmill, I do my few minutes of meditation, I jump in the shower, I get dressed like I'm going to work, put on makeup because that boosts me, eat breakfast and start my day, whatever that may look like.
Harriet Cabelly:
So routines are very, very important to keep us somewhat grounded in terms of, again, that idea of what can we control. We can control our choices in terms of, how much are we going to listen to the news. We get beeps and bleeps all day long on our phone with news updates. We can silence our phone. We can choose to decide, "I'm going to listen to the news once a day because I don't want it all infiltrating my psyche because that adds a lot more stress." So we have choices in our day-to-day life. I mean, we have choices in our life in general. Obviously we're given free will, we have choices, but we can execute and determine those decisions on a day-to-day basis. And those are huge coping strategies.
Harriet Cabelly:
We're not a victim to what's coming into us. It's like when people say, "Oh, the phone is ringing and I have to answer it." I always laugh. It's like, I'm at the cashier, and this was before the pandemic, and my cell phone would ring and the cashier lady would say, "Your phone's ringing." I'd say, "So what? I'm with you now." We don't have to be beholden to everything that's tugging at us. That is our world of little controls and our decisions on a day-to-day or minute-by-minute basis.
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. And it so defines the quality of each moment. I know that when I'm trying to do quality thinking and quality work, I put my phone on to airplane mode so nothing beeps. I turn off my mail so nothing comes through, and I do the quality work. And often people say, "But you haven't answered my message." I'm like, "I know, I was working." That's what happens. And I think you're right, the reality of a time where things feel like our everyday routine has gone pear-shaped is that it's a time to reground ourselves in a new form of routine and a new form of rhythm, and control how much it is that we're exposed to from a media and a interruption perspective so that we can still gain a sense of quality about our time and not a sense of lostness in the mess of social media.
Harriet Cabelly:
Exactly. And that feeling like we're just responders and we're swept away. No, we're creators. We're proactive. We initiate. We decide how much do we want to take into our lives, let's say in terms of news or whatever it may be. That's up to us. That's powerful to hold onto because a lot of times we just feel like, "Oh, I can't help it. Oh, it's just coming at me." Yes. There's a lot of things we can help, and those are the things we have to take charge of and feel, again going back, that sense of control.
Lisa Linfield:
Many people, particularly including my clients and listeners, have either lost their jobs completely or some of their income from their businesses has suddenly dried up. And for them it's a traumatic shock because none of them were really expecting it. For many of us, I don't think we truly realized the impact that this would have until it actually impacted us, because it was out there, it was in China, it was somewhere else.
Harriet Cabelly:
Right.
Lisa Linfield:
So, suddenly, they find themselves without an income and experience a sense of trauma. How do you suggest that people cope with that trauma? Something that, again, is not much in their control, but they're left with the reality of picking up the pieces of all the monthly bills that will continue to come, whether they have an income or not.
Harriet Cabelly:
Right. Yeah. And that's horrible and that's very sad and I don't even think we've seen the end or the beginning of it. I think there's going to be a lot of fallout and a lot of negative ramifications from this in terms of jobs and loss after this is all over, but even now going through it. So first of all, we need to acknowledge the sense of loss, and what comes with loss is grief, because grief is a natural response to anything that we've lost that's meaningful to us. It's not just loss due to the death of a loved one. It's loss of an income, loss of work. When people retire, there's a loss. When someone has a child with disabilities, there's a loss if we were expecting that healthy, perfect child. So, there's loss here, tremendous societal and communal loss around many things. But you're asking specifically around a job.
Harriet Cabelly:
So first we have to give ourselves permission to feel grief, that we're losing here. We're losing our job, we're losing our stores, we're losing our income and all that that means. And we have to attend to ourselves gently because we are grieving. In terms of the actual practicality of it, this is kind of fast-paced because usually when we go through the grieving process there's a little bit more time here to go through it and then start to work towards action steps of picking ourselves up and rebuilding. I think the timeframe here is a little more crunched together. We don't have all that time if we're struggling with an income, but I think the key here is that we have to start thinking out of the box. We have to start feeling like we have some other means of doing things and being a little more creative.
Harriet Cabelly:
There's a mindset called the growth mindset versus the fixed mindset in terms of just our intellectual and mindful abilities. And the fixed mindset, just to explain very briefly, is what we all know of is that IQ, we take the IQ test when we were going into first grade and we're given a number and like that sets us up for life. But the growth mindset is one of, we may be genetically in our game with certain abilities and capabilities that are innate, but having said that, we have huge, huge expansive potential much of which goes untapped in our lives. And we are always able to grow and take risks and find opportunities, but we need to be of that mindset that, yes, we can evolve. There are other opportunities. We have to find them. We have to pull ourselves up and decide, we don't have to be a victim.
Harriet Cabelly:
I mean this is a whole thing in and of itself, but the growth mindset is something that I feel, at this time, is one that we need to come to and hold on to while at the same time grieving a lot of loss. But to say there is hope, I may have to look outside my comfort zone. I mean, even me, I have a private practice and people come to me. Now, I believe that in counseling and therapy, the best way to do it is face-to-face. Personally, I don't like seeing my clients on FaceTime or Zoom or even on the phone because there's a lot that you miss with the in-person connection, and I'm not technologically savvy. So for me to now switch over is hard for me. And I'm not going to say I lost a lot, but I'm losing some because I'm just not stepping up to the plate as much as I need to be to bring in what I was bringing in before.
Harriet Cabelly:
And I'm just saying right now it's going to come slowly as I'm getting more used to this new technology. So, I think just the short version is, A) we have to grieve our losses and decide that we have to start looking outside of what we're accustomed to doing. Now, there'll be all types of specific examples. "Will I have this, and what am I going to do with that?" And, you know, that's all the individual cases, but I'm talking in a very general level now. Does that kind of answer the question a little?
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. And I think it is one of the great contributions that Carol Dweck did make on the Growth to fixed Mindset-
Harriet Cabelly:
Yes.
Lisa Linfield:
… is around the fact that I think many of us older, well, at least over 40-year-olds, were very much brought up in a fixed mindset that things were the way they were. Whereas I always try and get my kids, and they taught it at school, so they're so much luckier than we are. And I always try and get them to say, "Hey, there's that word, yet. You haven't mastered online psychological therapy sessions, yet. There's still a chance and it still can happen." And a solution might not present itself, yet, but if you keep at it, a solution can present itself. And I think the-
Harriet Cabelly:
And the idea, the whole idea of failure, that it's okay to fail, that it's with failures that we then learn a new way. Because if we fail and then give up, well, that's it. We're done. As opposed to saying, "Okay, I failed, I blew the interview. What can I learn from it? Now I need to step up again and again and again." I mean, just think of the one-year-old baby learning to walk. Every time they stumble, they fall. If they decided, "Oh, I fell down, I can't do this," well, what would be? It's the most beautiful analogy to see babies falling down and then getting up and eventually walking.
Harriet Cabelly:
And that's what we need to do. We fall down, we get up. We fall down, we get up. And we know how many famous people have failed numerous times before they made their big hit, so to speak. I mean, Thomas Edison, Oprah Winfrey, I mean the Chicken Soup books had like 85 rejections. The list could go on. So, the big component in the growth mindset is also the idea of, failure is to be learned from, and failure is the building block, and success is never a straight line, but it's a squiggly line. And I think that's also very, very important.
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. So you talk a lot about this post-traumatic growth as a way that provides a hope that one can attain the way of life beyond whatever the loss is, whether it be loss of the income currently, the adversity, any of the trauma that people are currently going through. Is this the basis of that?
Harriet Cabelly:
Post-traumatic growth is an interesting concept that came out in the early 1990s. People were thinking after the Vietnam War, and obviously I'm dating myself, the idea that this post-traumatic stress, obviously, and we were barraged with the idea that it felt like everyone coming through tragedy and adversity and hardship was going to have this post-traumatic stress. And I'm not minimizing it, a lot of people do. But there's also this idea that we can come through things, with difficulty, there's no making it easy here, with difficulty, but that on the other side of it we can actually come through it with growth. With something more positive, with something better. In other words, not that, God forbid, somebody loses somebody and you're going to say, "Okay, later on I grow and it's better." No. But that we can still find avenues of richness and enrichment post-trauma, post-loss.
Harriet Cabelly:
For instance, somebody loses a child, like the woman who created the MADD organization, Mothers Against Drunken Drivers. MADD. There's no getting around the horrific tragedy of losing a child in any way, and her particular way it was through a drunken driver. What was her growth after that? That she took on this cause and founded this organization. Now, there's millions of people that we could look at who've taken their tragedy and made something good of it, be it for themselves, for the world at large. I mean, numerous… The person who did the missing kids on the milk containers, John Walsh, he had lost his child to a kidnapping, I believe.
Harriet Cabelly:
So we don't all have to be big like that and do these major big foundations and organizations. But growth can come in ways of, "I appreciate things in life more. My relationships have deepened. I have a stronger connection to my spiritual self. My values have become more prioritized in my own way." So, there's many ways of viewing that we grow beyond our challenges. We have renewed meaning. So, again, that's just a taste of what is post-traumatic growth, PTG, as an antidote and a hopeful concept that there could be not just renewed life after, but a thriving life after, beyond, despite a trauma, a tragedy, a loss.
Lisa Linfield:
And I love what you say about the "and" because you were saying, the woman who started MADD, you can grieve your child or your loss or your trauma, and create growth. I never subscribed to the simplicity of, life is better afterwards for those humans. I think it's an "and." I think there is always a sense of trauma and loss and hurt and pain, and, every one of us has the possibility of creating growth in any circumstance.
Harriet Cabelly:
Yes, yes. You're so right. The power of the "and." We can hold pain and joy together, and we have to. Otherwise we would just succumb at the first shot of any grief or loss in our lives. We'd roll up in a ball, cover our heads with our cozy, thick comforters and call it a day and say, "I'm done." And unfortunately there are some people who will do that and that's it. Their life is over, be it literally with suicide or figuratively with just living out their lives in states of depression. And that's very sad and it's not to be blamed for. But there are other ways, and that is in our purview of choice. We can go back to choice, to choose how we respond to our difficulties. And that's a huge concept that comes from Viktor Frankl, an Austrian psychiatrist who went through the Holocaust and wrote the amazing book, and I highly recommend it, Man's Search for Meaning.
Harriet Cabelly:
The idea that we choose our responses. We can't always choose what befalls us, but we can always choose how we respond. And if I may say a quote from him, because it's one of his most powerful ones and I think it's life changing. "Everything can be taken from a man, but one thing, the last of the human freedoms. To choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way." And I think that here is the biggest message in terms of post-traumatic growth. Again, none of this is easy. It's easy to stay stuck. It's harder to do the work to climb out, but we can do it. We all can do it.
Lisa Linfield:
That's so powerful and I think it's absolutely correct. It is easier to stay stuck, and I know that in the worst of times we are often paralyzed in the stuckness. The challenge is that each moment we know that we can make more choices to move every day that follows. So if one day that choice is just getting up and getting out of bed, then that's fantastic. Then the next day, get up, get out of bed, have a bath, wash your hair, get dressed. And to keep each day choosing more than the previous day, to keep moving forward and to keep finding a different way, is absolutely the way forward.
Harriet Cabelly:
We don't want to put too much expectation or pressure on ourselves. It's baby steps, tiny steps. Like you say, you get out of bed, you take a shower. Baby steps that then we build upon. That idea, not to say, "Oh, my God, I've got to do something big every day." No. When we're in a state of grief or we're in a state of trauma or loss or severe pain, it's baby steps. And you know what? Sometimes we can lay with that cover over us for a while and have some good cries, and then at some point decide, "Okay, what's my next step?"
Lisa Linfield:
And I think, coming back to the "and" as I think about the state that we're currently in, I feel, in any one day, that I hold all the emotions in the sense of that there's a massive worry and concern for the world and also for the people around me in South Africa. For those who have lost their jobs. Moms who are unable feed their kids. People who entirely relied on the informal economy to create money for themselves, who are really destitute in this time. And, sometimes I even hold a guilt for having such a precious time with my children and my family that I know I will never, ever have again.
Lisa Linfield:
And having got through the first few weeks and struggled to adjust to being in a lockdown state, I now know that there are many times within my own day where I feel how lucky I am to have this time to just stop and be with my family. My one little girl said, "It's so nice to have daddy at home." And even though he's working, I know that he's there and he's with us. And that sense of connectedness, of us as a family, is something I cherish because when the world gets back to its fast pace, this being together, whilst it has many challenges, it also has many moments of great beauty and great joy, in the middle of this weird and crazy situation.
Harriet Cabelly:
Of course. And that's being a benefit finder. That's looking for the good within the difficulties. That's being grateful. Right? And we all talk about keeping gratitude journals as a means of coping and as a tool for well-being. Well, if this isn't the time to do that, then I can't think of any other time that's more crucial and needed than seriously keeping a gratitude journal or jotting a few things down each night, because it keeps us afloat and it reminds us, "Hey, as hard as this is, there is some good things here." And in the midst of the most horrific challenges, there's always something to be grateful for. So, yes, the people who are struggling to feed their children, there's no question how horrific that is. And, if they have their health, again not minimizing the other aspect, that's something to be grateful for.
Harriet Cabelly:
You have your health. There's always something. Even in the lowest points, we have to hold on to that. My daughter was in a hospital for a year, many years ago. She had a medical crisis. She was on a respirator for four months due to another situation, obviously like 16 years ago. And that's when I started my gratitude journal, because I remember my therapist at the time said, "You have to hold on to something here so you don't start sinking because you've got to be there for her."
Harriet Cabelly:
And I started my gratitude journal. And even though every day, for the first month, I wrote the same thing. "I'm grateful for the amazing nurses. I'm grateful that if she had to be taken to a hospital not of my choice, that she was taken to one of the top hospitals in New York. I'm grateful that my daughter has a good relationship with her stepfather," because I was staying at the hospital most of the time. So, at least I knew at home there was not going to be fireworks going back and forth between them. So, we can always find something and we have to, and we have to, to just make the picture of our lives broader. Meaning, yes, there's bad going on, and yes, there's also some good. There's a balance.
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. So this time, there is so many different views as to, will life resume as it was or will we forever be changed? And there's this time of pausing and waiting and seeing. How do you suggest that we actively prepare ourselves for the next phase when life does resume and we do have to get back onto the treadmill?
Harriet Cabelly:
Ha, that's an interesting question. I haven't thought about that one yet, but just off the cuff, I think it's funny because I have conversations like this at home with my family here. We talk about how, hopefully, we'll take some of this slower pace when we resume. But then, you think about again people being out of jobs and scurrying to make up for the money, and people may take three, four jobs, and there'll be even faster paced because we'll all be trying to make up for, not that we could make up for what we lost, but at least somehow get back on track monetarily, financially. So, are we going to be even worse off because we're going to be scurrying so much to make ends meet and get those jobs? So, I don't know. But I do hope that we do take a lot of what, you used the word, "being."
Harriet Cabelly:
That word, being, is so important because we're a society and a culture of doing. Doing, doing, doing. Accomplishing. Producing. All of the doing stuff. And I hope, I hope that we take and remain with some of that being, some of that idea of what we really value, that we just must, as a necessity, prioritize. Time for being quiet, for being just still, for being with our family, for just doing nothing. The idea of doing nothing, we're not used to that. And there's something to be said for that because that's some of the greatest creativity comes about when we're just being. And I think that's something to really try, at least, to hold on to. I think it will be hard, though. I think once we can go back, I think we'll gradually be going back. I don't think it's going to be a one-shot deal, and I really do hope we could hold on to some of that. I don't know.
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. And I think it comes back to being intentional, to create an intension that protects time like this, and at least every month.
Harriet Cabelly:
Yeah, definitely an intention and definitely being proactive and definitely being the creator of how we want to carve out our days. These are the things in our control. The bigger picture of, you know, something could happen, okay, we have no control over that. But what we have control over, we need to input into our lives. Like now, I run women's groups and we talk about self-care, the idea that we're all home. We don't have to literally be sitting. We got to be moving. We could go outside and take walks. We can go to our local track, if it's open, and walk two, three times a day. We can have dancing in our houses, we can jump rope. I mean, it's so important to keep our bodies moving even as an antidote to depression and sadness because we know when we move we get those endorphins going and that's only beneficial to us.
Harriet Cabelly:
Humans are not meant to just be sitting all day long. So the idea that we have to be in the house doesn't preclude exercise or just, I don't even like to use the word exercise at this point because gyms are closed and all that, moving. Just plain moving. So, again, going back to control, we can carve out and control how we want our days to be. So there's the control with a little "c" and then there's the control with the big "C." I'm not sure where I went with that and what you asked and if I addressed it, because somehow that came out.
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. And if you look at the way that people are responding in terms of, you generally do seem to find the initial phase was about almost denial and fighting back against this whole slowness, but there seems to be more and more and more a sense of gratitude for the world just taking some time to slow. Do you think we'll be able to keep that as a world, or do you think it's going to get right back where it was?
Speaker 4:
I think it's going to get back to where it was because I think we're all going to be scurrying to just try to recoup some of what we've lost. Lost, again, in terms of financial loss. I'd like to think that we can hold on to some of this, but we have to first know what it is we're holding on to. Like, what is it while we're going through this time that we are valuing? We have to be clear on our own lines. What is the silver lining here, and what are we actually liking about this? Because if we can get clear the benefits or the silver lining or the pieces of gratitude that we're liking now, then we could hopefully hold on to it because we'll hopefully prioritize it back in our lives. It's like, I tell this to my grandkids, "We're living history now. Each and every day we're defining our lives of how we are doing during this unprecedented critical time."
Speaker 4:
We want to be able to look back and say, "It was hard, but I did well and we came through it. And these are some of the things we did, and these are some of the strengths we used in ourselves," because that makes us feel good about it, gives us a sense of greater self-esteem, and tells us, "Hey, I am resilient. I can do these things." And then we carry it forward. Hopefully, we shouldn't have any other times like this, but certainly we have other challenges, and know that I can do it and I can meet those challenges because look what we came through and look how well we did.
Speaker 4:
So, it's important, now. Each day, we're living this. And it's up to us how we're living this right now. And I think it's important to journal. I know I have someone, again, one of the women in my women's group, she's going out and she's taking pictures. She's photographing like parks with locks on them, discarded gloves that she finds on the ground, and she's going to scrapbook it with her kids, and somehow have this, I don't know, memorial, whatever you want to call it, of what these days were like. And I think that's incredible. That's beautiful. And I think we can all just hold on to what we feel is important to us while we're going through this.
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. Thank you, Harriet, for your time and thank you for the amazing way that you've shared with us. How would people learn more about you and the work you're doing?
Harriet Cabelly:
My website is rebuildlifenow.com, all the words together, rebuildlifenow.com. And I am offering some 20-minute free sessions online for those who feel they could benefit from some support, some resiliency building. So I am offering that.
Lisa Linfield:
That's excellent. And we'll put the links to those in the show notes.
Harriet Cabelly:
Okay, great.
Lisa Linfield:
Thank you very much for your-
Harriet Cabelly:
And you could go buy my book on Amazon.
Lisa Linfield:
Absolutely. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.
Harriet Cabelly:
Thank you, Lisa. Take care. Be well.
Lisa Linfield:
That was Harriet Cabelly, and I just loved her sense of positivity and her energy and the fight, in her, to encourage each one of us to fight for the growth in our life. To hold the "and" in our story. The acknowledgement that things can be really tough, and, that there is still opportunity for growth and joy in every single day. So I really would love to encourage each one of you just to reach out to me through our Facebook group, Brave To Be Free with Lisa Linfield, and to feel that you're able to just voice whatever it is that's happening currently in your position in life. That I know that these situations can be highly traumatic and can be difficult, especially if you've lost income. And I want to offer to you that myself and the many amazing human beings in that group are here to support you. Take care. Have a great week. I'm Lisa Linfield and this is Working Women's Wealth.